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 mystified |
DMT |
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/02/09 2:46 AM |
DMT is a psychadelic drug, but interestingly DMT also occurs naturally within the brain as a neurotransmitter or hormone (exact purpose not known by science).
This furthers my theory that every person is capable of hallucination and that it is a natural phenomena. |
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Airelle |
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 448 07/02/09 5:01 AM Moderator |
Yeah but most people's brains know how to use their neurotransmitter/hormones properly! Therefore hallucinating isn't really a natural phenomena, it is
a problem if it happens by these or similar means.
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Cobalt |
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 782 07/02/09 8:52 AM |
I do not think anyone disagrees with the idea that Visual Snow is a 'natural phenomenon' - insofar as it is not 'supernatural'. However, cancer
is also a natural phenomenon - being 'natural' does not equate to being something 'good'.
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Airelle |
#3 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 448 07/02/09 9:25 AM Moderator |
Philosophical 'natural phenomena', no. Scientific 'natural phenomena', yes.
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Cobalt |
#4 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 782 07/02/09 9:55 AM |
pffft....semantics.
(my posts have dropped in constructivity again, of late) |
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mystified |
#5 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/02/09 12:17 PM |
If you take the word phenomena to mean perception, then the "good" or the "bad" of the phenomena will be within the mind of the beholder.
I am referring to the point, entoptic phenomena is a natural i.e. (as by nature) occurance, and any human is capable of experiencing entoptic phenomena, only the means by which a person reaches the entoptic phenomena will be different. Airelle wrote: Yeah but most people's brains know how to use their neurotransmitter/hormones properly! Therefore hallucinating isn't really a natural phenomena, it is a problem if it happens by these or similar means Most peoples brains work properly? Maybe, Im not sure how a persons brain, would be confirmed as working properly.....further, the amount of synthetic drugs, hormones, food additives, sugar, poor diet, colourants, etc etc etc, that we consume as a society today, who is sure any more, who is working properly and who is not. I agree, entoptic phenomena is unusual, but possibly not un-natural. |
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Byron |
#6 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 109 07/02/09 8:32 PM |
Yes DMT is amazing.
I recommend it to anyone who wants to explore their VS further. Well maybe not. DMT is a bit full on, for beginners. By all means try it. I recommend starting with a low dose of psilocybin containing mushrooms, to get a feel for it and to see whether this type of exploration is really for you. Psilocybin basically does the same thing as DMT, except psilocybin is much gentler and slower and more manageable. This type of exploration is, I think, the main reason why I have learned to love my VS. Mystified. I agree that the existence of endogenous DMT does further the idea that hallucination is a natural phenomena. There has been a lot written on this already (not on this board of course). I recommend any who wants to know more and read what is already out there on this subject, to check out WWW.EROWID.ORG for discussion, publication and links to even more discussions and publications on this fascinating theory. And yeah Who is to say who's brain works properly and who's doesn't. I don't think VS is dysfunction of my brain. |
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Wendi Triplet Mom |
#7 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 821 07/02/09 8:50 PM |
How could a constant hallucination be "normal"? Natural, yeah... but are you saying it is "normal" to have a hallucination 24/7/365?
Byron, I'm confused about you recommending taking "psychedelic drugs" based on past conversations. |
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Tective |
#8 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 194 07/02/09 11:28 PM |
I think Byron is showing his true colors...the reason he "enjoys" his VS is because he uses psychedelic drugs to enhance the visual distortions...or
even to cause them.
Byron, please do not post on this forum ever again. You are obviously NOT physically ill; you are, however, psychologically very disturbed. In your post above, you are encouraging illegal and dangerous drug usage to those of us who are battling overwhelmingly dibilitating symptoms. If you were truly trying to help others, you would not encourage them to harm themselves. What's next...suggest they admire the blood as it flows from their wrists? Ian, please consider banning Byron. |
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Byron |
#9 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 109 07/03/09 12:06 AM |
Tective
Do some reading before you call something a dangerous drug. The drugs I have listed above are no where near as dangerous as many of the drugs prescribed for VS. Psilocybin is particularly benign, as far as its toxicological profile goes. It is also self limiting with very little abuse potential. This is because a 5 - 7 day break is needed between doses for it to have a psychoactive effect. i.e. If you take psilocybin today it will have little to no psychoactive effect if you try and take it tomorrow. You will have to wait a week before it makes you "trip" again. No matter how much you take. This is true for most psychoactive tryptamines and phenethylamines. I am talking to the people who are interested in exploring their VS. Psilocybin is an excellent way to do this in my opinion. I am not really talking to you about it Tective because I know you don't want to hear it. But there are some here who already do use psychedelic to explore their VS. Just not many. Psychedelics were used clinically for psychotherapy before the U.S made them illegal in their war on drugs. They are still used clinically although this is not common due to the legal issues which now surround them. I recommend two books on this subject. PHIKAL and TIHKAL were written by Mr and Mrs Shulgin. Among other things, these two books describe the use of psychedelics in a psychotherapy setting. I agree with you Tective, my VS is not a "physical" illness. It is how my brain works normally. I have had VS since birth. Psychedelics helped me learn to love and understand VS. Why should I keep that a secret? The facts are that you have little to lose by trying psylocibin. Not you Tective. I mean someone with an open mind. Wendi I have talked about the relationship between psychedelics and VS more than once on this board. |
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Byron |
#10 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 109 07/03/09 12:22 AM |
Also
Ian if you are reading this. Tective just went out of her way to insult me, with all kinds of hurtful crap. She said I don't suffer debilitating symptoms. How the hell would she know. She also callled me "psychologically very disturbed" That is a terrible thing to say on a forum which has many memebers with psychological issues they are being treated for. Having VS has psychologicaly disturded most of us here. We are all trying to come to grips with this condition. Her over zealous nature has caused her to insult me again and again. Every time I express my opinion, which is of course different to hers, she jumps down my throat with savage insults. It is not my fault she does not know what she is talking about. I have never heard her critise people for taking benzos (very dagerous drug). Why is she so scared of what I have to say about psychedelics (comparitively benign). Its 2009 not 1950, there is much knowledge now about the proven safety and therapeutic benefits of psylocibin. There is also direct evidence of it being the most useful drug for migraine and cluster headache prophylaxis (vs/migraine link). Tryptamines are already prescribed for this purpose and have been for years, just not the best one. Unfortunately due to incorrect stereotyping of psylocibin not many people have access to use it legally for such purposes. My ideas on psychedelics are not unfounded or unreasonable. They are evidence based.
Last Edited By: Byron 07/03/09 12:51 AM.
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mystified |
#11 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/03/09 1:03 AM |
Wendi Triplet Mom wrote:Wendi, we are all different, we are all capable of different things. For example, we are all seemingly born with the same bits and pieces, however, some people become good atheletes, some people are "naturally" good athletes, some people take drugs to become better athletes, some people will never be athletic, no matter how hard they try, or whether or not they take drugs for the purpose. In the same way, some people see more than they should be seeing, I believe that this is the result of the same cause although there are a number of ways to achieve the end result. Some people see visual phenomena (hallucination) "naturally" some people take drugs to see visual phenomena, some people will never see visual phenomena with or without drugs. Such is the variation in life. |
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mystified |
#12 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/03/09 1:10 AM |
In line with what Byron said, the medical profession takes control of the drug situation and tells us what is good and what is not so good for us.
I have never taken hallucinogenic drugs, I have no wish to because I do not want to burden my immune system, that is my choice, but I would find it highly hypocritical to then swallow a load of crap that the doctor says is "OK" because he gets commission to chuck these things at people who are suffering from a number of varied symptoms. You cannot say, one drug is better than another, they are all the same, classification is merely a matter of opinion. |
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mystified |
#13 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/03/09 7:10 AM |
see side effects of caffeine here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
Statistically, halucinogenics are considerably less harmful than a great number of the drugs that are taken by people who come to this board. In fact a great number of people here claim that their problems have begun by taking legal drugs given to them by their GP
for those of you loving your VS and I find my tolerance for these post-modernists and spiritualists declining Who you like to explain who you are refering to and how you have reached these unfounded conclusions? Once again it is the generalised assumption that those of us with a different point of view, a positive and valid point of view, are not regarded as welcome
and are asked to leave
cease annoying those of us with a real medical issue.
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Wendi Triplet Mom |
#14 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 821 07/03/09 10:36 AM |
Byron,
I don't read every single post to every single thread because some do not interest me. Your past recommendation of use of psychedelics must have been in one of those threads. The reason I said I am confused is because you stated time and time again that you do not use drugs. If you are not using them, then why would you recommend them to "explore their VS further"? I'm also confused... when I said I the only time I had ever heard the wording that you used was from people taking acid and you were saying you do NOT take drugs and that confused me - and you got SOOOOO upset and accused me of calling you a drug addict when I that is not what I meant... do you use drugs to explore VS further or not? Am I imagining that you are contradicting yourself. (Making this absolutely clear - I am NOT saying you are a drug addict!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) You have also posted about the (several different) medical positions that you hold. If someone comes on the board reading that you are any one of these medical-type-people and that you are recommending psychedelic drugs... well if it confuses ME... it is going to confuse people coming on here trying to find out whether they are going blind and then seeing that... "Wow, cool, that doctor-type said it was a good idea to try psychedelics, and I cannot get my hands on THAT kind, but maybe I'll try acid instead and maybe I'll be happier about having this condition, too!" |
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Cobalt |
#15 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 782 07/03/09 10:49 AM |
Yes mystified, I would be perfectly happy to explain who I was referring to:
I was referring to individuals such as yourself, Byron, WillyLuke, Perplexed Pigeon (you would have loved that guy, but he got banned) who insist that our visual impairment is not a visual impairment, but some sort of social construction resulting from what you see as a society that pathologies anything 'abnormal'. Unfortunately, it is not "society" that is telling me I find reading difficult, it is the constant flickering in my vision that causes that problem. I reached my unfounded conclusions that you are post-modernists and spiritualists from several key observations: 1. You are often advocating spiritual rather than neurological explanations for VS 2. You are often advocating post-modernist/deconstructionist ideas on medications and hallucinogenic drugs, rather than realist ones. 3. The PM I received from the new administrator informing me that he had deleted my previous post chided me for not accepting "New Age Thinking" - the implications of that phrase require no explanation. I reached my unfounded conclusions that I and others wish you to leave from other members such as Tective and Wendi objecting to your presence, and to the objections of the majority of active posters to previous post-modern "love your VS" types who surface here from time to time. The desire for you to leave is based on the fact that you are clearly not suffering the same condition as the majority, and so should inhabit a separate forum. Also, that Byron is advocating using hallucinogens to "explore your VS", when this is very dangerous for a VS sufferer and could make their condition infinitely worse, inflicting undue suffering. It is also based on your statements such as the one that implies legal and illegal drugs are basically the same, the only distinction being what society and big pharma find acceptable. This assertion poses further risks, as it encourages people to ignore basic facts such as that legal prescription drugs have been subjected to safety trials, and that illegal ones are often far from pure. This is not "social construction", it is fact. I am not insulting you, I am insulting your argument - there is a distinction. You and Byron have discussed your symptoms many times. You seem to enjoy them. That is why I say to cease bothering those of us who suffer a real medical condition - while we suffer, you enjoy, yet you claim the experiences are one and the same.
Last Edited By: Cobalt 07/03/09 11:29 AM.
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mystified |
#16 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/03/09 11:08 AM |
cobalt wrote
I was referring to individuals such as yourself, Byron, WillyLuke, Perplexed Pigeon (you would have loved that guy, but he got banned) who insist that our visual impairment is not a visual impairment, but some sort of social construction resulting from what you see as a society that pathologies anything 'abnormal'. I have spoken to Perplexed Pigeon before. That is your first miscomprehension Now please illustrate clearly where I have insisted that your visual impairment is not a visual impairment. I think you will find that you cannot because I have never done any such thing. Cobalt wrote 
I reached my unfounded conclusions that you are post-modernists and spiritualists from several key observations: Again please do illustrate ????? Cobalt wrote: 2. You are often advocating post-modernist/deconstructionist ideas on medications and hallucinogenic drugs, rather than realist ones Please illustrate??? Are you the spokesman now for the rest of the board, because you seem to be reading the minds of the other members? Are you psychic, are you a closet medium???? I think you will find that if you declare many members of the board are opposed to my presence that IS a personal insult.
I have not advocated the use of any kind of drugs so do not point that stick at me.
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Cobalt |
#17 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 782 07/03/09 11:22 AM |
Ok, I accept your point.
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mystified |
#18 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/06/09 6:27 AM |
Its back! |
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Byron |
#19 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 109 07/07/09 3:53 AM |
Cool!
Wendi I was not on any drugs at the time I was writing my initial post to this message board. People responding to my initial post try to make me out as a deeply drug affected person. They tried to say that only someone who was deeply drug damaged would post something like that. I do not abuse drugs or even use many drugs of any type. That was unfair and wrong IMO. I started using psychedelics in my late teens to explore my VS. I discovered that psychedelics were useful for ME in this way by complete accident. i.e. I took some at a party and found that it increased my ability to see VS for the duration of the drugs effects. With time, I was able to transfer the techniques I acquired through psychedelic use, to enhance my ability to see VS anytime I wanted to (without the drug). I know other people who do this as well but just not many on this board. I do it several times a year, with much planning and preparation. I do it in a responsible and respectful way IMHO. As I have said before I like this type of thing and recommend it to anyone interested. I also see it as being relatively safe and quite beneficial in the rite hands. If you are interested please do your own research and become your own expert on psychedelics. Their is no doctor or professional you can go to, to help you do it correctly and safely (sadly). You will have to take responsibility for your self. So you would have to be an adult IMO. Also, psychedelics are not the only way to explore VS. They are a big part of my way though.
Last Edited By: Byron 07/07/09 4:01 AM.
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mystified |
#20 | |||
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Regular Visitor
Posts: 55 07/07/09 5:20 AM |
Cobalt wrote: Another miscomprehension and assumption. When I first began to experience PMA I was absolutely mortified and consumed with anxiety about the whole thing for a long time . My own research has lead me to believe that the symptoms are not something to be feared. This is not to suggest that I enjoy them, I still have the symptoms, they have not gone anywhere, but they do not bother me anymore. Im sorry cobalt, but Im not going to apologise because my perception of my symptoms is different to yours. I am not prepared to live in a constant state of anxiety any longer. It is not healthy. Again-----I have not claimed that my experience is the same or any different to any other, I am not able to percieve the experience of another person. |
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